PALMER TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION

JULY 10, 2007

The regular monthly meeting of the Palmer Township Planning Commission was held on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 at 7:00 p.m. with all members in attendance except Young and Grube. Also in attendance were Planning Director Amanda Jensen, Engineer Brian Dillman, Attorney Christy Schlottman and Supervisor Liaison Robert Lammi. Vice Chairman Rickert called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.

MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING – On motion by Stoneback, seconded by Wilkins, and agreed by all, the minutes of the June meeting were approved.

TCAAB Associates – 3353 William Penn Highway – Jules Miknyodzki, one of the partners and Ana Martins of Van Cleef Engineers were present with plans for this proposed land development plan. Martins noted there were two properties involved with this application. The applicant is proposing to improve the eastern lot and convert existing building from all residential to have a residence in the lower portion and light commercial use in the upper 1 ½ stories. Palmer Trophy will stay the same but they may have to rearrange the parking. Amanda Jensen informed the Commission that because this is in the overlay district they are required to go through the site plan process. Rickert asked the Engineer if there were any comments with the township engineer’s letter and she responded to several of the comments which refer to the widening of the roadway frontage and sidewalk/curbing along both lots. Feels this would adversely affect the businesses. If they are required to do the widening this would take the parking for the business. Applicant is to find out if an HOP is required. Dillman stated that a deferral from improvements may be requested in writing but they still must be shown on the plan. There is not a specific use right now but they did the calculations on the greatest demand that could be in this proposed facility. It was suggested that they go to the zoning officer for approval of the use when determined. With Lot #2 being an existing non-conforming use it does not conform with the buffer requirements or set backs. Dillman also suggests she gets a letter from zoning officer and his interpretation on this. They should also make sure a garbage truck is able to get to the dumpster and back out again safely. Martins commented on the departmental comments as far as the zoning comments. She noted they will be two separate lots. The residential and business in one dwelling must go before the Zoning Hearing Board approval of this since it is now only being used for residential. Jules stated that his biggest concern is the frontage and improvements that are required. They are to contact Jensen and she will get some information for them as far as the roadway width. On motion by Wilkins, seconded by Stoneback, and agreed by all, the Commission voted to table action on this plan.

COMMERCE BANK - F. Peter Lehr, Attorney for the applicant was present along with Mike Jeitner, site engineer from Bohler Engineering and John Harter traffic engineer. Attorney Lehr stated they were seeking a variance from the township’s previous requirement of all required parking spaces in two ways. The one would be to blast the stone wall in the rear of the mall for these extra 27 spaces and the other was for the width of the drive aisles. Lehr stated they are on the zoning board’s agenda for August 7^th. They are seeking variance of 27 off street parking spaces as they would have to blast in the rear of the mall to be able to get these spaces in the bedrock. Though this plan was previously presented by the applicant, Lehr feels this is a hardship on their part due to the financial burden it would create to do this work. Lehr stated there is a very steep slope in the rear of the mall and this would entail a lot of work to get these parking spaces in. Parking aisles are going to be a problem as they would be longer than what is allowed. Jensen highlighted for everyone what took place at the Zoning Hearing Board last August. Financial loss is not a hardship and the Zoning Hearing Board should not take this into consideration. Lehr took exception to this. Noting they are asking for 27 less spaces. Grandinetti stated that when this land development application was in front of the Commission initially there was no problem fitting in spaces, and now there is. Stoneback feels this is not a hardship, it is their problem if they did not research it further. Jeitner noted when the bank was proposed they were close to the requirement for parking spaces. Construction cost rose considerably since a year ago when they started construction. There are some concerns by the property owners that are adjacent to the mall when they would be doing blasting of the bedrock for these spaces. Lehr stated they have looked at alternate places for these 27 spaces. They are here tonight to get a recommendation from this Commission for them for their appearance before the Zoning Hearing Board. Jeitner showed their alternate plan which is east of Boscov’s in the parking area. They are proposing removing of the cut-throughs and adding more spaces there and other landscape aisles. The maximum distance between drive aisles is the variance they need. 200 feet is what is the maximum allowed by ordinance and they are proposing 22 spaces in a row and landscape would be 400 feet in length. Some other locations throughout the mall are 250 maximum. Stoneback asked if they were asking to reconfigure the spaces that are already there and Jensen noted yes and showed the proposed plan. Rizzolino asked whose decision is this to make. Rickert explained that it is the Zoning Hearing Board and Lehr noted one part of application is off street parking and feels this Commission needs to act on this. These new aisles would be extremely long and the travel distance for exiting would be extended but more people will travel through parking lot and not go into aisle. Dillman feels the Mall and Boscov’s should have to sign off on this plan for whatever is decided. Rickert stated that Palmer Township adopted certain rules and regulations due to safety and she has a problem with going against what is required. Wilkins reviewed the Zoning Board’s decision letter of a year ago when they bank received their approvals. Wilkins noted he didn’t know why the Zoning Board would want to change their decision from a year ago. He read more from zoning decision and stated economic hardship is not a cause. Stoneback asked what happens if the Zoning Board denies their request. Lehr stated then they will blast. Dillman noted there are other alternatives. You could construct a small parking deck. Wilkins stated the Zoning Board was very clear on what they required as was the Planning Commission. Rizzolino noted a parking deck should not require any blasting. Dillman noted there are very, very strict guidelines with blasting and huge responsibilities with blasting but it would be the applicant’s responsibility. Beth Samuelson, General Manger of the mall noted she didn’t know if this plan has been submitted to the mall but does know that the Mall and Boscov’s have come to a determination that the 27 spaces and the blasting would not be favorable. Feels this new plan would be more acceptable than the blasting. She stated the better spaces were where the bank is located now. She feels it is a difficult decision now. Samuelson noted she does not know if the 27 spaces would benefit the mall. Supervisor/Liaison Robert Lammi stated that since this plan does not come before Board of Supervisors he is commenting at this time. He stated that he voted against this project a year ago and that he is absolutely against the blasting and everyone should keep in mind that limestone is very soft. He noted that extending the traffic aisles from 200 to 400 feels would create a traffic safety hazard and there were two alternatives for this applicant in his mind - the parking deck or not require the 27 spaces. When this applicant was here a year ago the Mall knew that the key spaces were being lost but it wasn’t a problem at that time with upper management of the Mall.

Rickert asked for comments from the audience -

Joe Alessi - 64 Clairmont Avenue – he noted they were never advised that there would be blasting. He noted that the bank waits until the 11^th hour and they’ve had almost a year. Feels the township is part blame due to allowing them build here. Jensen noted this Commission voted no for this project. Alessi stated he and his neighbors are very concerned with this blasting and very much against it.

C. Edward Fee - 77 Morning Side Dr. – stated the proposed parking lot in the hillside would be right under his home. He commended the Board for years back in their design of the mall itself, especially the green buffer between mall and property above it. If this buffer was removed the valuation of the homes would be impacted. He also stated he was very concerned with the blasting.

Anthony Fague - 85 Morning Side Dr. – stated he was concerned with the blasting issue but there is another issue, radon. This is something they have to think about also. The greenbelt effect is already diminishing. If any of this land is taken the greenbelt with diminish more.

Ronald Scalzo - 73 Morning Side Dr. – asked if there is an option to change the ordinance to reduce the amount of spots. He noted that the rear of Boscov’s is always empty.

Attorney Lehr introduced John Harter stated that he has done an analysis for parking. Mr. Harter noted he did a traffic counts in February and noted that the parking lot was not 50% occupied.

Rickert stated plan was approved a year ago with certain amount of spaces. It’s been almost a full year and now they are here with this request. She feels if the 27 spaces are not required then this sets a bad precedence. She asked if anyone thought a parking deck would be costly. There were various comments on this.

Rickert asked for any other comments. Lehr noted they are really out of space and they can not come up with any other area for spaces. In his mind there is no alternative except for blasting.

Lehr commented that this Commission had a problem with the bank in the past and knew that they voted against this project.

Rickert stated the Commission did not have any opposition to the bank itself, they had a problem with the location.

Fee - 77 Morning Side Dr. – felt the Commission’s position sounds like one of spite. Commission members responded absolutely not. Dillman noted there are alternatives. Fee noted he felt the Commission supports the residents and pursues these other alternatives. Commission assured Mr. Fee that blasting is the furthest thing from our minds. Applicant must go to the Zoning Hearing Board. Schlottman noted there is no action required by this Commission as far as recommendation to the Zoning Hearing Board but they must act on the reduction of off street.

Stoneback asked if a motion could include that no blasting be recommended.

Rickert asked if the mall owned the additional property where culvert is. Manager answered yes. Rickert noted this could be a place for more parking. This is something to look into.

On motion by Stoneback, seconded by Grandinetti to recommend requiring the 27 off street parking spaces and added that no blasting be allowed and that they are to look into alternative means. Wilkins stated he feels parking to the back in general would result in loosing the green space. Stoneback amended her motion to include that no parking be created in the back due to the green space stressing that the bank should not be touched. Grandinetti amended his second. Rickert asked if there were any comments in the audience. Alessi stated he was concerned with setting a precedence because the township really does care and if another solution does not come up then the bank should be penalized and money put in escrow. Rickert called for a vote which was all yea.

PLANNING DIRECTOR’S COMMENTS – Jensen noted the Commission did a nice job with a difficult situation tonight.

Wilkins noted his daughter won the Miss PA Pre-Teen contest and asked if pictures could be taken next month with her. Commission congratulated her and told him yes to this request.

On motion by Rizzolino, seconded by Grandinetti, and agreed by all, the meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.

Diane Grube, Corr. Sec.